Tuesday, January 06, 2009


I haven't blogged at all on the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza because I don't feel like there's much worth saying. People tend to have very strong opinions when it comes to Israel, opinion of the sort that can't be swayed by experts, let alone ignorant bloggers. But there was something that caught my mind the other day and that's the fact that here in the United States, there are demonstrations to condemn Israel, but there are never demonstrations to condemn Hamas.

I suppose if I had to pick a side, I'd side with Israel. I just can't imagine living in Israel and having to deal with criticism of your somewhat measured response to having rockets lobbed at you by your neighbors. A couple hundred years ago, Israel would have just annihilated the Palestinians and been done with it. Now, I can understand the perspective that the Hamas rocket attacks that started this whole mess are just a response to various Israeli actions. But here's the thing- either war is justified or it's not. When your nation is attacked, most sane people would agree, war is justified. Now, I've heard arguments that Israel has violated international law repeatedly in regards to the Palestinians in Gaza- So be it. Then Hamas would be justified in their attacks. The real issue seems to be the amount of force Israel is capable of using, which has nothing to do with whether or not the use of force is justified in the first place. Debating fault in a longstanding dispute just seems rather pointless from my perspective.


Anonymous rose said...

I'm trying to keep you busy here LL, busier than I am at work right now.

Ok, I realize I occasionally take a very black and white view of things that are inherently grey. But wtf?

Israel's been attacked from all sides for 50 years by Islamists. They've tried flat out elimination of the threat, tried deterrance, tried negotiation...and now they're still dealing with random rocket fire from lands that they evicted their own settlers from... from Hamas, an Iranian funded terrorist group that the majority party in Palestine opposes.

What would people like Israel to do? What is the purpose of a proportionate response? What end does that lead to? You killed 5 of ours, we'll kill 5 of yours, wash rinse and repeat? How does that make any sense. You've got to either deter, or eliminate. Or I guess you could make more concessions...but I don't their any Israeli concessions outside of not existing would suffice for Hamas and Iran-they've said so themselves.

You cannot deter Jihadists. They're not self-interested. So, 50 years into constant assault, what else can Israel do?

LL, what should Israel do in your opinion? And again, maybe you can help me to understand why it is so many people are so quick to condemn Israel. I don't get it.

2:16 PM  
Anonymous Mel Gibson said...

It's the jews' fault.

2:25 PM  
Blogger lonely libertarian said...

I think it's too easy to lose sight if you don't look at the big picture. The surrounding Muslim world does have legitimate complaints in regards to a nation that was created out of the ashes of World War II. Jews flocked back to the region in the twentieth century, whereas the Palestinians had lived there continuously for hundreds of years. This isn't to excuse violence, only to point out that both sides have real grievances. When I say that searching for fault is pointless, I say that in the context of a hypothetical peace process, where one side has to be right and one side has to be wrong.

But there's a difference between judging the big picture and judging individual instances. Indiscriminately lobbing rockets from Gaza into Israel, killing civilians is an act of war or an act of terrorism, whatever you want to call it. And responding to that aggression is appropriate. Talk of proportionality, as you mention Rose, is utter BS. (And we only tend to hear about it in regards to Israel.)

The real BS comes from the anti-war types who have never ending complaints about Israel, but have no real plan for peace other than for Israel to basically cede to every Palestinian demand.

And Rose, you ask me what Israel should do and I'm not sure. I think their response has been justified, but it's cost a lot of lives and I just can't say whether or not it's the move that really makes the people of Israel safer.

4:31 PM  

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